The Water Rover Project

Recap

2008-12-13T20:51:00.001+11:00

We have driven the car about 1500 kms on 250 liters of petrol of petrol, the fuel economy was about 20mpg on highway and about 14mpg around town. The average consumption over the 1500 kms was 16mpg (or 18 liters/100kms).

Whilst we established this record (which we needed to do in order to determine a difference with the post hydrogen installation) we tracked down and ordered a standard hydrogen cell and installed it in the vehicle’s engine bay. We also attempted to track down readymade electronics required to make the cell work efficient (a pulse unit that draws about 2 amps) and eventually bought all the electronic components to assemble it ourselves.

The hydrogen cell installed without the electronics was blowing 30amp fuses and we did not want to draw this much current. No practical solution to limiting the current draw was found. I will go to a TAFE with this problem!
In the mean time we also tried to track down the circuitry required to fool the EFI unit to deal with the excess Oxygen going into the manifold (the Hydrogen Cell produces twice as much oxygen as it does hydrogen!). One solution we had was to space the oxygen sensor away from the exhaust (we have a spacer for this). Doing this would make the car run too lean if no hydrogen is used and the engine may get damaged. An electronic circuit was deemed better which you can switch on or off or regulate in between. This circuitry can be bought via the internet but I was unable to actually obtain it – easier to get Viagra!
As this was happening I searched around for a solution to make a cell which produces no oxygen. This took a few months of experimenting with various components, and I now have one that I believe does exactly that. The oxygen comes out on one end and goes into the air, the hydrogen comes out the other end and is fed straight into the manifold..

The benefit of a small amount of hydrogen in the manifold is that when the spark ignites in the cylinder the hydrogen will immediately explode. This explosion is BEFORE Top Dead Centre which means if it is too big it actually fights against the cylinder which is still moving up. The aim of the small explosion is to fully ignite the petrol mix (coming from the injectors). This has the same effect as buying super duper Titanium sparkplugs and putting a coil on each cylinder. The result is better and more complete petrol combustion, hence more power, and a cleaner emission. Maybe if the electronics of the engine can deal with adjusting engine timing then we can feed more hydrogen in the manifold and go for a bigger cell and maybe gain in power output.
Controlling the current drawn by the cell we can also do by controlling the mix of electrolytic agent in the cell. We tried using vinegar, salt and Caustic Soda. Caustic Soda has a problem in it being caustic and needs careful handling, but it makes for a cleaner running cell (the cell will apparently last much longer and have less built up mineral residues). To maintain a certain concentration of salt (or any of the other electrolytes) is difficult as cells need topping up every 500 kms or so, and trying to regulate voltage with a specific concentration of electrolytes is difficult, hence we like to have an electronically controlled system that allows the cell to draw as much as it is given. This circuit we should be able to adjust to give the cell more or less current, and preferably a pulsed (DC or AC is OK too) voltage.

With the current cell design that only feeds hydrogen into the engine I will experiment in our own car, after I get the current draw issue solved!

CONCLUSION
The Range Rover is going home without a hydrogen cell installed.
I do not think we will make a huge difference in fuel economy, probably 10-15% at best. The equipment required to do this is not easily available – I was expecting the people in this industry would be more able to deliver!

If I can make the cell work on my own car with reasonable results I will duplicate it for our second car and go from there! I am not sure now how it will work on diesel, but people tell me they have good results in large and small diesel trucks.

COSTINGS
So far we have invested just under $1000 in parts and $400 in petrol.

Awaiting carbon rods

2008-09-07T10:34:00.002+10:00

Well, we have been searching and searching, but cannot find good carbon rods. I tried some welding rods to no avail. Sniffing out new sources. Getting a little annoyed how hard it is to try different things and have to wait for months and months to find the stuff you need. The pipes and cyclinders and joints and meters are all asdsembled, just waiting on good carbon rods. Does anyone know where to get thick (5-10cm diameter) carbon rods (50cm long say). We patiently await answer from our next sources. IF anyone has a hint on where to get carbon or graphite rods let me know!

Rethinking the project

2008-07-26T22:49:00.004+10:00

We had a little setback with the electronics from Hydrofuelsolutions. They say they mailed the order but it never arrived. Worse is that they tell me they no longer make them for some reason. They were very kind and immediately refunded me the money.

I have done some deep thinking and decided I want to eliminate the tinkering with the electronics altogether. Electronics is something I really do not like and I am no good at it. So I have come up with a cell-design that will eliminate the need for electronics altogether.

Also, I am fairly certain it is against the law to play with anything that affects pollution, and that would include the Oxygen or MFP censors. The methodology I came up with is simple, I wonder if I should even put it on the Internet here... If it works we can make and add a Hydrogen cell to vehicles a lot easier, cheaper and quicker and not rely on third party gizmos and get better mileage and driving results with standard ULP.

Today I ordered some bits and pieces from Hobby World on line and will keep you all posted once I have a prototype cell producing Hydrogen.

In the mean time we have stopped driving the Landrover as the petrol is way too expensive, and we now have a good fuel consumption indication to compare end results with.

Walter----

Update from the USA

2008-06-12T11:36:00.004+10:00

Currently visiting the USA. Have ordered a MAP/MAF & IAT adjuster from Hydrofuelsolutions.
Hopefully Australian customs will not think it is a bomb!

Hydrofuelsolutions also have an Australian Distributor: Jason Whatley in Tasmania, from whom I bought the Hydrofuelsolution fuel cell.

Troy was driving the Landrover till recently, but has stopped as he has determined a mileage pattern that he is not happy with! It is heavy on the juice. Troy has fitted the cell into the engine bay. We still need to condition it, but we'll do that when I get back from my trip.

Progress Report...

2008-05-23T21:52:00.000+10:00

I have established a mileage record over the last 900 kms of driving; 13.5 mpg (21 liters/100km) in the city and 20.5 mpg (14 liters/100km) on the highway. This weekend the car is going to Troy who is going to also drive it (to and from the town of 'Nook') and start installing the cell. Troy will have the car while I am in the USA (till ealy July).

In the mean time I am working on making and buying the electronic circuitry required and now have soldering to do! I have harassed the people at Leading edge for many parts. Maybe Troy will work on the electronics as well.

In the USA I might also pickup more electronics for our project.

Electronic Circuit Boards

2008-05-21T09:58:00.002+10:00

Right now I have all the ingredients to make a circuit board! It may take me a few weeks to get this part right, so I need help! Who has good experience making circuitry? Ideally we can find someone who can whip them up relatively easily as per our (relatively simple) designs till we come up with the ideal circuitry. If we find the optimum circuitry we like to produce a few dozen of these boards as well. Any takers in Tasmania or Australia? If you are a manufacturer we like to hear from you too, even if you are as far away as Taiwan or China!

Contact waterrover at cotu dot biz.

Conditioning the hydrogen cell

2008-05-15T14:36:00.002+10:00

I found this information, which is for a slightly different HHO cell structure (tubes), and requires a Stanley Meyer pulse unit... so I can probably not do this myself without having one of those gizmos.. (anyone has one)?

A very important part of the cell build is the conditioning of the electrode tubes, using tap water. This is done as follows:

1. Do not use any resistance on the negative side of the power supply when
conditioning the pipes.
2. Start at 0.5 Amps on the signal generator and
after 25 minutes, switch off for 30 minutes
3. Then apply 1.0 Amps for 20
minutes and then stop for 30 minutes.
4. Then apply 1.5 Amps for 15 minutes
and then stop for 20 minutes.
5. Then apply 2.0 Amps for 10 minutes and
afterwards stop for 20 minutes.
6. Go to 2.5 Amps for 5 minutes and stop for
15 minutes.
7. Go to 3.0 Amps for 120 to 150 seconds. You need to check if
the cell is getting hot...if it is you need to reduce the time.

After the seven steps above, let the cell stand for at least an hour before you start all over again.
You will see hardly any gas generation in the early stages of this conditioning process, but a lot of brown muck will be generated. Initially, change the water after every cycle, but do not touch the tubes with bare hands. If the ends of the tubes need to have muck cleaned off them, then use a brush but do not touch the electrodes!! If the brown muck is left in the water during the next cycle, it causes the water to heat up and you need to avoid this.

Shopping...

2008-05-15T13:28:00.000+10:00

Progress so far. I have bought a 12V power supply for workshop use, so I can plug in the HHO cell and do a test run before mounting it in the car. First thing is to condition the cell:

Normal conditioning is done the first time you run the cell. You can use baking soda, but what works best is KOH (Potassium Hydroxide) it takes approx a 1/2 teaspoon in a single unit. The water will turn red from iron bloom, you don't have to clean the unit until the water is dark red/brown and starts looking thick. Any foam that you see is from the small amount of detergent used to clean the stainless steel parts, it will dissipate. In between cleanings you only add plain water.

Trouble is, at least here in Devonport, finding Potassium Hydroxide. I tried everywhere from agricultural supplies to pharmaciues and supermarkets and hardware stores. I might need to use baking soda. The reason I like to get this right is because it will affect the cell's performance. I am keen to fire it all up and see how it works, but I also want to do it right!

Step ONE

2008-05-11T23:03:00.003+10:00

I found the hydrogen cell I wanted on the internet at http://www.hydrofuelsolutions.com/, and sure enough their Australian distributor, Jason Whatley, is only 65 kilometers from my home!

Jason showed me how the cells produce hydrogen and showed me exactly how explosive it is by igniting some gas trapped in detergent bubbles. Kaboooom! It works... All I need to do is somehow improve on the production as it does not seem to produce much as is.

I walked out with a HYDRO SUPER 2, which according to Hydrofuelsoutions is a complete HHO generator ready to install and will gain me as much as 40 % better MPG This is the flag ship of their company. It is designed for 1 ltr up to 5.0 ltr engines petrol or diesel, but will require plenty more modifications and accesories to get anywhere near the possible 40% they claim. The Range Rover is under 4 liter, and I can always add another cell later. This is a good setup for me to begin experimenting. Finding space under he hood is very difficult as the engine does not leave much spare room. Wish me luck!

My first job is to 'condition' the cell, something I will learn to do shortly.

Where to add the gizmos?

2008-05-10T12:16:00.001+10:00

The POMs really know how to cram an egine bay.

Somewhere in here I will need to mount toys...
Off to Deloraine to find the first part tomorrow!

Fuel Economy of the LandRover Discovery

2008-05-09T20:51:00.001+10:00

According to https://www.fueleconomy.gov the v8 Land Rover mileage is pretty miserable.
When new it was tested in the USA:

City: 12 mpg (in Australia that is 10 mpg)
Highway: 16 mpg (in Australia that is 10 mpg)
Combined 14 mpg (in Australia that is 11.6 mpg)

And according to users the average user gets 9.2 mpg
In Australia that is 7.7mpg or 25 liters/100kms!

Even if we get an improvement of 35% it would still not be considered a green vehicle!

Info collected to date...

2008-05-09T20:30:00.001+10:00

1995 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY
(in Australia)

Wagon 5dr V8i Man 5sp 4x4 3.9i 870kg

Price range - private sale* $4,900 - $6,700

Price range - trade-in $2,500 - $4,300

Price when new $49,120

Red Book code LAND95AD .

* Important note: Dealers' retail prices will be higher than these private sale prices because they must prepare a vehicle thoroughly, both mechanically and aesthetically, and they provide a warranty.

If you are in Australia and you want one like this? Check here to see if one is for sale near you: <click>.

Read some reviews <here>.

Good Points: 4 X 4, Ride Height, Room, 7 Seats
Bad Points: Fuel - Would be cheaper to buy a petrol station.

More reviews at countrycars.com.au

standard specifications

Make LAND ROVER
Model DISCOVERY
Series V8i 4x4
Series Year 1995
Price (New) $47170
Engine Size 3.9 L
Fuel System MULTI POINT F/INJ
Fuel Consumption (City/ Hwy) TBA
Tank Capacity 88.5 L
Power 134 Kw
Torque 304 Nm
Body Type 2D WAGON
Seating Capacity 5
Standard Transmission 4A4x4\
Drive 4WD
Turning Circle 11.9 m
Kerb Weight 1854 Kg
Dimensions (L/W/H) in mm 4524 x 1793 x 1928
Wheel Base 2540 mm

From Used Car Review: Land Rover Discovery
Bruce Newton , February 9, 2005

"Disco's V8 engine, originally a 3.5 but upgraded later to 4.0, is under-powered, thirsty and best avoided. The original 2.5-litre diesel Tdi was tediously slow and uninspiring too, although economical. But the biggest bugbear has been reliability - be it mechanical, electrical or durability issues such as rust." Read more <here>

Welcome to the Water Rover project

2008-05-09T18:47:00.000+10:00

What do you mean Water Rover? Well, what we are attempting to do is improve the fuel economy of this vehicle through putting a small hydrogen cell that creates water and hydrogen and feeds it into the engine with the petrol going in. We hope to get a more efficient and cleaner combustion process and hence improve performance or economy.

We are not going to be using rocket science here, we are merely trying to creatively utilise commercially available products to extend the range of one car by 35% or more using an electrolysis process which runs on water and electricity from the car's electrics. Hopefully we will develop a process that works, or else we will at least dispel a myth (the run-your-car-on-water one)!

To begin with we have found an investor willing to donate some funds and provide a vehicle. A manual 1996 3.9 liter V8 fuel injected Landrover Discovery. Here it is!

It currently has 189500 kilometers on the odometer.

In the next few months we will be collecting mileage data on this vehicle and keeping careful logs.

In the mean time we will get the equipment required that we think we need to make this work!
This blog will keep you posted of what is happening without giving too many trade-secrets away. Watch this space.